Who has to fill out log books?
Q. Who has to fill out log books?
A. If you drive beyond 100 air miles from your terminal, or work more than 12 hours in a shift, you do. If you drive a non-CDL vehicle, there are numerous exceptions that apply to you, instead of the 100 air mile rule.
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Im in the state of Florida, hauling US Mail. My question is on the 100 or 150 air mile radius, for my local drivers. GVWR>26,000 lbs – Operate within 100 air mile radius vs GVWR<26,001 lbs within 150 Air mile radius is my understanding. My tractors are 26,0001 lbs. Is Florida different?
Thanks
I’m not sure I understand the question. CDL vehicles get a logbook exemption within 100 air miles. Non-CDL vehicles get a logbook exemption within 150 air miles. You have a CDL vehicle… 26,001 lbs. is a CDL vehicle. I am not sure what the Florida rules are, but for your purposes it doesn’t matter. You haul mail, which is always considered “interstate” commerce, even though your trucks may never leave the state of Florida. You must always follow the Federal rules.
I recently got busted for not having log book driving in Maryland going back to pa with my commercial 3500 one ton pulling 10,000 lbs trailer with my construction equipment. I was within 150 air miles but still got citation because we stayed overnight according to officer. Is this worth fighting? Thanks
Well, if you stayed overnight, you don’t get the exception. So, no, the cop is right, not worth fighting.
Can any worker get behind the wheel of a 3/4 ton dually and drive if he only has a class c license. The dually has Dot numbers. The drivers not pulling a trailer but is making a trip over 100 miles
Hey, Eric. I appreciate your help.
To the point …
My residence is in Melbourne, FL. I possess a FL Class A CDL (earned 9/2014). I got lucky and just got hired by an Asphalt Company that I found on Craigslist which travels the country. They are licensed in New Hampshire. The owner also has a 2nd/Winter house in Daytona Beach. He has equipment in New Hampshire (Business), Daytona Beach (House), AND Melbourne, FL (Storage Lot) as well.
I will start working for them in the Melbourne, FL area where they have equipment stored. We will always work less than 12 hrs/day. Is Melbourne considered a ‘TERMINAL’ or ‘HOME’ since that’s where we are PULLING equipment from to work?
Also, if we were to LEAVE Melbourne, FL area past 100 miles … I assume that I would have to document the drive. And if I had to for that ONE DAY … do I have to show at least 1 week before of absent driving since I didn’t drive?
Also, if we were to start work in Miami which is 250 miles away from Melbourne, FL, and we worked there for a month or so without leaving and going past 100 miles, … do I NOT have to do the log since the ‘TERMINAL’ or ‘TEMP HOMEBASE’ would then be Miami?
From my assumption. If we temporarily move to a new location (hotel) for short-term work, then that would be the the new ‘TERMINAL’…
I apologize for my ignorance but hope to do well.
Thanks a bunch,
David
If my company is contracted to haul mail is it a requirement for drivers to have a DOT physical? I know you mentioned in the post above that hauling mail is always considered an “interstate” commerce. What exactly does that entails if the vehicle in which the mail is transported is less than 10.001 GVWR?
If the vehicle has a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 10,001 lbs. or more, the driver must have a medical card, be keeping track of his hours, have a DOT employment application, among other things. If the vehicle is under 10,001 lbs. GVWR, generally speaking, anyone can drive it, as it is unregulated. Most 3/4 ton pickups are right at the 10,000 GVWR limit. Some are over, some are under. The GVWR is found on a metal plate inside the door.
If the pickup has a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 10,001 lbs. or more, the driver needs to be qualified (assuming this is a trip across state lines), which means a medical, DOT employment application, among other things. If the vehicle has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or under, it is basically unregulated, meaning anyone can drive it. 3/4 pickups are right at the line, some are under 10,000 lbs., some are over. The GVWR is found on a metal tag inside the door.
David, I generally answer questions for free (my tip jar idea has been a big bust), however, you have asked way too many questions. Sorry. The best advice I can give you is pay attention to what your foreman and supervisors tell you, and keep a logbook when you are running over the road (more than 100 miles from your terminal).
If the vehicle has a GVWR of 10,001 lbs, and hauls mail YES on the medical. If under 10,001 lbs., NO on the medical.
Hi, Can you please tell me if I understand this…Work vehicles under 10,000lbs are exempt from DOT numbers and log books.(unless hauling a trailer) Work vehicles 10,001 + lbs-26,001 need DOT numbers but only need to keep a log book if over 150 air miles from base. 26,001+ lbs. vehicles need DOT but only need to keep a log book if over 100 miles from base. If no log is required, a time sheet will work?
Thank you!
Work vehicles under 10,000lbs are exempt from DOT numbers and log books.(unless hauling a trailer) YES.
Work vehicles 10,001 + lbs-26,001 need DOT numbers but only need to keep a log book if over 150 air miles from base. YES.
26,001+ lbs. vehicles need DOT but only need to keep a log book if over 100 miles from base. If no log is required, a time sheet will work? YES, a time sheet will work, as long as it has the time started, time finished, and the total number of hours worked that day. Also, you can only use the time sheet if the driver is back within 12 hours.
Can you tell me where I can go to see regulations for non dot and get samples of how logs should be filled out
Hi,I have permit-mc authority as a contract carrier of property(exept houshold goods),but I just have driver calling me, and asking,if is possible for him to drive just in Florida which we are based of.I don’t know,if we are able to do intrastate loads.do I need authority for it?Thank you
Non-DOT? I am unsure what you mean by regs for non-DOT. Sorry. FMCSA’s website has many good logbook examples, as to the 11, 14, 30, and 70 hour rules. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov, and search around for “logbook examples”.
I actually do not know. I guess you would probably need to talk to FHP, or some other Florida office (Department of Revenue?) to find out if there is some kind of Florida permission you need to haul for-hire within the State. Sorry I could not help more.
hello there , first off this is a great thread!. to business, if i fly to get truck for my company do i need to log the flight time to show dot how i got 5 states away in 5 hours? if so do you know the fmcsr # where i can find that info?
Hi, I drive a class B truck everyday, but I don’t drive outside the 100 mile rule. But my company is sending me to pick a load up that is 144 miles away across state line. I do not keep a long, I guess my question is when do I start my log sents I don’t drive everyday outside the 100 miles?
Aaron: you can log the entire trip as off-duty, provided you are off-duty for 10 consecutive hours when you get wherever you are going. If you get off the plane, and immediately get in the truck, the whole flight counts as on-duty. Pretty sure that’s in 395.1(j)…. yes it is. Just show the off-duty time on the log, and write in the notes: flight from Point A to Point B. Remember, you need the 10 hours off-duty when you land though.
Aaron:
395.1(j) says it is all off-duty if you get 10 hours off-duty when you get to wherever you are going. On the log, in the remarks section, just write flight from Point A to Point B. Make sure you have 10 hours off=duty when you land, though.
Daniel: you would start your log on the day you are exceeding the 100 air miles. You do not need to go back and fill out a log for all the days you were within the 100 air miles. I assume when you are within the 100 air miles, you are keeping your time on a time card, or time sheet? Anyway, if you are, then all you need is a log for the day you go outside the circle. Hope that helps.
I work for a comp that subs from all the cell comp and I am dot certified and my god is 11000 lb do the 12 14 roll go for us to. We do not have to have a log book but every thing is on computer.
Hi Eric,
This is probably a repeat of many questions above.
We pull a Jet fuel placarded trailer with a DOT stickered pickup truck across state line to a worksite we are contracted to for the next few months.
Does this work site become my new home base for the 100 mile radius?
If I disconnect the trailer to leave it at the base and have a non cdl driver use the dot pickup truck around town or to go to the hotel, does he have to fill out a logbook? Does the 12hr /100 miles matter? Can your home base change based on where you travel? Thanks!
The company I work for falls within the 100 mile rule, but we do go out of state for product pick up and sometimes go over the 12 hours. if we fill out a log for let’s say Tuesday and don’t have to for Wednesday or Thursday but fill one again Friday how will DOT know what hours we worked at a check point stop? Will they issue a ticket for not having all the days filled?
Uhhh, I’m not sure what the question is. If you are in an 11,000 lb. GVWR vehicle, you can get out of logging if you stay within 150 air miles of the office, and record your time started, time finished, and the total number of hours worked that day.
Question 14 of the interpretations to 395.1 says you can change your normal work reporting location intermittently, although it does say you must log the trip from the previous normal work reporting location. So, yes, you can use a time sheet when set up on the jobsite. On the “drive the truck around town” question, the driver would be able to use a time card (see Question 14). Remember, you have to be done within 12 hours in order to use the time card, otherwise you need the log. I am assuming the truck has a GVWR of 10,001 lbs. or more without the trailer.
I had to look up Question 14, so here are my tip jar instructions:
1) Go to PayPal.
2) Log into PayPal. You need a PayPal account. See, this is how you can get out of tipping.
3) Find the Send Money link. It should be on the first page after you log in.
4) Enter my email: eric@arnoldsafety.com
5) Enter the amount!
6) Choose whether you want the money to come out of your PayPal balance or your banking account.
7) Hit button “Send Moneyâ€
8) Thank you very much!
You don’t need the log filled out except for those days where you don’t meet the exception (IE, the days over 12 hours). Here is Question 21 from the interpretations of 395.1:
Question 21: When a driver fails to meet the provisions of the 100 air-mile radius exemption (section 395.1(e)), is the driver required to have copies of his/her records of duty status for the previous seven days? Must the driver prepare daily records of duty status for the next seven days?
Guidance: The driver must only have in his/her possession a record of duty status for the day he/she does not qualify for the exemption. A driver must begin to prepare the record of duty status for the day immediately after he/she becomes aware that the terms of the exemption cannot be met The record of duty status must cover the entire day, even if the driver has to record retroactively changes in status that occurred between the time that the driver reported for duty and the time in which he/she no longer qualified for the 100 air-mile radius exemption. This is the only way to ensure that a driver does not claim the right to drive 10 hours after leaving his/her exempt status, in addition to the hours already driven under the 100 air-mile exemption.
I had to cut and paste Question 21, so I am also going to cut and paste my tip jar instructions. Thanks!
1) Go to PayPal.
2) Log into PayPal. You need a PayPal account. See, this is how you can get out of tipping.
3) Find the Send Money link. It should be on the first page after you log in.
4) Enter my email: eric@arnoldsafety.com
5) Enter the amount!
6) Choose whether you want the money to come out of your PayPal balance or your banking account.
7) Hit button “Send Moneyâ€
8) Thank you very much!
My son has his class A CDL. What are the penalties if he drives more than 12 hours within a 100 mile radius of his terminal. I would like to know the rules for hours off and log book requirements if he’s driving more than 12 hours per day.
Hi,I volunteer with a local high school to move their marching band’s instruments and equipment to competitions. We use 2 Penske 26ft non CDL trucks. This year we’re going to a competition out of state, approx. 220 miles from school. I hold a CDL but the other driver doesn’t. Since this is non-commerce do we need logbooks?
Thanks!
If he works more than 12 hours within a 100 air mile radius, this is legal. He is allowed to work up to 14 hours (and one day a week, provided he returns to the terminal every day, he can even work 16 hours). He does have to fill a log out for those days over 12 hours though. He must have 10 hours off-duty in between shifts. Hope that helps.
I would say no logbook is required, as the hours of service rules only apply if commerce is involved. I would make 100% sure this is a non-commercial exercise, though.
High Eric I am an owner operator.I transport and hauling company,I drive a f-350 dully with a 28ft in closed trailer,do I need to do a log book if I am running DOT&MC# on the vehical.just asking so I am not getting myself and the company in trouble.
I drive a tow truck in CA not requiring a CDL due to the weight. For the most part we stay within a small area but every once in a while we have to go on long distance tow. If I go on a tow greater than 150 miles do I need to complete a log and if so do I have to document the days prior. During the day I work in the shop/truck and at night I take the truck home to be on call is there any rules against this.
Yes, you need a log book, if you are going more than 100 miles. Generally speaking, of course.
1. Over 150 miles: you need a logbook.
2. You do not need to document the days prior.
3. No rules against taking the truck home, although you might have to account for that time as on-duty.
I have a production company in AZ we do stage lighting, stages sound,ect.. Must of our work is in the city under 100mile. But sometimes we go to different cites and states. I have a few full time employees and the rest are freelancers. Question? We have one 26′ Box truck non-CDL and rent more of the same trucks when needed. Between my employees and freelancers we all drive the trucks at different times. Some do not drive for weeks and other float from our truck to rentals. Some times we work over 12 hr shifts for events and will have to drive afterwards. Question is- do we keep one log book in the truck and get more per rental truck? Or does each of my employees and freelances have to have their own book?
David , If you were to need to use a log book , but as a volunteer you do not , and jump all over town all day then you do not need to flag every stop . What you do in this case is draw a straight line across driving for 11 hours or how ever long you drive that day . in the remarks section you would write ” multiple stops . ( what ever city and town you are working in at that time ) “
Hi, I have a Class A CDL, but I’m 19. My age restricts me from travelling out of state so I was planning on buying my own 26ft non-cdl box truck, and being an owner operator until I turn 21. I can’t get a clear answer on if I need a CDL for that or just my DOT#, med card, and log book since I will be making money, and travelling out state? However, the vehicle will be under 26,001 lbs. Thanks so much.
Each driver should have his own logbook. You must comply with the 70 hour rule, which means you cannot drive after being on-duty 70 hours in any consecutive 8 day period. So, for your drivers who haven’t driven for weeks, you need to know how many hours they’ve worked when they get in the truck. You also need some kind of record of that. If you are spending weeks on location, you can either keep a time sheet, with the time started, time finished, and total number of hours, or you can fill out the logbook every day, and put the time worked all on Line 4. Hope that helps.
Payton: the Feds will not let you operate any vehicle with a GVWR of 10,001 lbs. or more in commerce outside of whatever State you live in. That’s found in 49 CFR 391.11(b)(1). In other words, they won’t let you drive your 26ft box truck outside the State until you turn 21. Sorry about that. We can send you to war, let you kill and be killed, but you can’t drink, and you can’t drive a truck across imaginary lines.
I’m really hoping you can help me and answer a few of my questions…
The company my husband works for rented a 26 foot box truck from Enterprise (in AZ) with air brakes… he is using it for work and is traveling to NM, AR, MO and back to AZ. He recently got pulled over in AR and was sited for many things and I am wondering what he can do…
He was sited for no medical license, does he need one?
That the business name was not on the truck… my questions is why does he need the company name on the “rental” truck?
No log book
They also gave him a ticket for having beer in his cooler in the back of the locked box… This is illegal???
I have searched the internet and cannot seem to find and laws or rules on these items that I have mentioned above I’m really hoping that you can help.
Thanks for your help.
I work for a car dealership we hire drivers to do dealer trades all over the US. Dealer trades are when we need a vehicle from another dealer we will trade. We trailer the car they want and pick up the car we want on a trailer. Our trailer is a 10,000lb gvwr and our truck is an F350 the total is under 26,000.lb. Do our drivers have to have a CDL and if not do they still need to fill out a log book?
I guess not thank you so much for your time.
I need to transport equipment from NJ to OH, drop half then take the rest to PA and drive back empty to NJ. I have a box truck, the right insurance, and a non-CDL driver. Anything else I need to know or setup or send for this trip? Do I need logs? Do I go through the weigh stations?
We are licensed used motor vehicle dealer in illinois, if we buy semi truck(over 10000) in auto auction we can move that truck displaying dealer plates and using dealer insurance,becouse at that point no commerce involved right?
Hello! I transport 1 coventional rv trailer across country per trip from manufacturer to dealer using a 3/4 ton FORD diesel with a gvwr of 10,000 I’m always empty for the return trip, do I need to run a logbook on the return trip? I don’t make any money on the return and I run without dot # on for the return as well?
I work for a railroad construction company headquartered in North Dakota, I’m working in Wisconsin, and many other states. The truck I’m driving is 19500, no trailer. All the work we do is within the 100 air miles from our temporary headquarters for the job. I do drive the truck from one city to another when relocating for a job.
All these rules are pretty confusing, I’m just looking for a definitive, up to date answer on when I am legally obligated to keep logs.
It is a welding truck for thermite welds, so I’m hopping all over the place along the tracks all day
Typical work day is 10 hrs 7 days a week – with a few 12-14 hour days here and there.
I have a F-350 with a GVWR of 11,200, the truck can tow 14,000, BUT the manufacture gcvwr is 23,500. Can I tow the trailer if I keep the weight on the truck down to 9500 lbs or lower?