Who has to fill out log books?
Posted on March 1, 2007
Filed Under HOURS OF SERVICE
Q. Who has to fill out log books?
A. If you drive beyond 100 air miles from your terminal, or work more than 12 hours in a shift, you do. If you drive a non-CDL vehicle, there are numerous exceptions that apply to you, instead of the 100 air mile rule.
Eric Arnold is a Former Enforcement Agent with the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, and a leading expert on USDOT compliance for small businesses. Do you have a question for Eric Arnold? Email him at eric@arnoldsafety.com.
Arnold Safety simplifies D.O.T. Compliance for commercial vehicle operators. Get Eric Arnold’s USDOT Compliance Guide, DVD, & Regulations at ArnoldSafety.Com.
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47 Responses to “Who has to fill out log books?”
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We are a flooring company that has one job beyond the 150 mile radius. We take a box truck there about every two to four weeks. Our warehouse guy drives it there. Does he have to maintain a log book for the weeks he is working in the warehouse (he sometimes drives a van or box van to deliever items locally). He is does not have a CDL. Does he need to be in a Random drug screening program? Also do we need to maintain DVIR’s and Maintenance records for DOT.
When in the warehouse, he does not need a logbook, but he does need to maintain time start, time finished, total number of hours that day, whether on a timeclock, or timesheet. No on the random drug testing, probably on the maintenance questions. Do you go across state lines? If you do, you need the DVIR’s and maintanence records.
i am retired..do volunteer stump grinding work….my pickup is at 6700..trailer is 3800…i am comerical know this….but i dont work anywhere..i drive from town ta town….get out my truck 6769087359068759036875069874567 times a day in towns…..how tha hell am i gonna log that in ma book????theres not enough room!!!!!!!!an why do i hav ta hav dot an all this crap i been havin ta buy?????i thinks its….bsssss………….thank u very much….an if i get 1 ticket….im gonna go home…sell my machine….take out my cds from bank….get on welfare with everbody else…..an let yall pay me…..ta not do chit!!!!!!!!!….got any input????
David:
Volunteer stump grinding? The rules only apply if you are in business. If what you are doing is truly volunteer, and no money is changing hands, then the rules do not apply, and you do not need a DOT number. For example, if you rent a truck over 10,000 lbs. GVWR to move your furniture, the rules do not apply, as you are not in commerce; you are using the truck for your own, non-commercial use.
As for the rest, as a hard-working American taxpayer, I’m already supporting over half of the people in this country, so if you want to hop on the freeloader bandwagon, knock yourself out, I’m sure I can afford to support one more.
i do…do volunteer work….ill tellum wut i would charge….if they give me moneys….its donations..do i still hav to hav dot then?…an whut can i get away with???….anything at all??….an i WONT eva be on walfare….dont worry
i also hav my truck lettered….stump grinding is on lenth of my truck an cell number??….heck i hav almost eva thang i need to be legal….sept weight rated tires..rate on tag..soon i get legal…..they will come up wif sumum else……..
Donations, huh?
Hmmm, I’ll have to ask my accountant about that. “Hey, IRS, that money in my bank account is from donations. Don’t worry, it’s all good.” No, I’d say you are probably in business, and subject to these DOT rules. I’m glad you won’t be on welfare, though. I just checked with the government, since I now have to bail out these sub-prime mortgage people, I won’t have enough left over to carry you as well. Sorry.
Hi i do catv constructon and and my office is in pa but i work in differant places most of the time i work in one state for 6 months or better. My truck does not leave that state and i am under a 100 mile radius a day. Would i need to keep a log
Andy:
If you are under 100 miles, you do not need to fill out a log if you record your time started, time finished, and your total number of hours that day, and you work 12 hours or less.
I truck pull for a hobby, this year i purchased a gooseneck trailer to pull behind my pickup truck to haul my pulling truck to the events, when loaded i weigh around 20,000, i drive to pulls in my home state minnesota and Wisconsin and sometimes illinois, there is money to be won at these events that hardly pays for the fuel to get there, What rules do i need to follow, log books, having the truck D.O.T inspected? i have heard from numerous people different things that i would have to do. also weighing 20,000 loaded do i need to go through the weigh staions along the highway? Id really like to know the truth on this so i don tget nailed on the side of the highway or something.
thanks
Yeah? Truck pulling? I used like watching that on ESPN late at night. That and Australian rules football, wish they’d bring that back. It would beat listening to Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon discussing Kobe Bryant’s greatness.
Anyway, you need to comply with all of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations, except drug and alcohol testing, because you are under 26,001 lbs. GVWR (I think, from your description). Do you have to stop at weigh stations? Depends on the state. Read the sign leading up to the scale. In Ohio, the signs say, “All Commerical Traffic over 5 tons”, so does Maryland. That means you. When in doubt, pull in. Want more information? May I suggest buying my DVD package, with it you get free phone consultations, not a bad deal, especially if it saves you a $500 ticket…..
I LIVE IN GEORGIA, AND DRIVE 12,000 GVW BOX TRUCK WITH MY LAWN MOWERS IN IT. DO I NEED A DOT NUMBER IF I STAY IN GEORGIA.
Frank: yes, it appears the rules apply in Georgia for all vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 lbs. or more.
Eric,
Please help ASAP. Big meeting on 2/18 and I need info by then. I work for a construction company.
We drive trucks ranging from F150 to semi trucks and everything in between. We do operate in state and out of state at various jobsites.Can you put together a punch list of when I need to use a log book and when I don’t need to use a log book, depending on what I’m driving and where.Thanks for the help.
SW
Steve, yes I can.
You need a logbook if you drive a vehicle with a GVWR of 10,001 and up. You need it if you work more than 12 hours a day, or go more than 100 air miles from the office. Otherwise, you can keep your time at the office in a time sheet fashion, recording the time started, time finished, and total time that day. There are other exceptions which apply, may I suggest my DVD package? With its purchase, you get total access to me, although the package itself probably answers all your questions. Or maybe you could get your employer to purchase, if there is confusion. Hope that helps.
I drive a 1 ton duelly with a 28 foot gooseneck from each of our different jobsites. some are in different states. My question is after I pull the work trailer to that site, I usually stay there and work on site from 1week to sometimes 1 to 2 months then move on to another company site. I only pull that trailer that one time, do I have to fill out a log book only when I pull that trailer, or each day that I am on duty working on that site. Also I use that same truck to get me from my motel to jobsite. do I need to fill out each day of miles if I take that truck to and from work.
Mike: you definitely need to fill out the logbook when pulling the trailer. You probably need to fill it out all other times as well. The 1 ton is most likely over 10,001 lbs GVWR. The rules say that if you are in commerce, you are subject to the rules, ie, logbooks. If you are taking the truck from the motel to the restaurant or laundromat, then no, that would not be in commerce, and therefore, not require logbooks. However, if you are going from the motel to the jobsite, I would say yes, that is subject to the rules, especially if you are carrying some type of tools or equipment with you. Some DOT guys will tell you no way, that’s not subject, you don’t need a log, but some will tell you need a log. It also means your 14 hour clock starts when you leave the motel. Hope that helps.
I work for a wrecker company that also has a heavy duty wrecker. We only use that a small amount of time and the rest we are operating under CDL limits so logbook, etc doesn’t apply. My question is: Since we don’t get to pick when someone is in a wreck and we may run non-CDL a few days for long or short hours and then on day 3 get a heavy duty call that goes 200 miles, would you only log that day you operate under CDL limits or do you have to log all? It is pretty hard to log time such as a time sheet since our hours vary wildly. Thanks and look forward to getting your dvd.
Well, the hours of service rules apply whenever you are driving a vehicle subject to the rules. That is, 10,001 lb. GVWR across state lines, or 26,001 lbs. in some States, such as Texas. I’m taking a wild guess, you are from Texas? Anyway, if you are in Texas, the rules apply, starting at 26,001 lbs GVWR, so when driving that vehicle, you must comply with the 11, 14, and 70 hour rules. If you are going 200 miles from your office, you are going to need the previous 7 days of logs with you in the truck at that time, to prove to any inspecting DOT officer that you are not over your 70 hour limit. Also, you cannot log all the non-CDL days as “off-duty”. That’s on-duty time, and should be logged as such on Line 4.
This means if you’re piling up 60-70 hours a week in small trucks, and then have to go to Louisiana to get an upside-down tractor trailer, you’re probably over the 70 hour limit. Hope that helps.
Hi I have a cdl I am currently working for a company going from pa to ny i dont drive a cdl truck do I have to fill out a log book
Justin:
If you are driving more than 150 air miles from your terminal, you need a logbook.
hello i work for a moving and storage company in texas.we have a strait truck licenced under 26001 pounds, and it it is a commercial vehicle, and a non cdl vehicle. do you need to run a logbook when driveing this truck? we drive atleas 90 miles one way everyday and sometimes further.
Mike: It is my understanding that non-CDL transportation wholly within the state of Texas is not regulated. In other words, if you do not take your non-CDL truck outside the state of Texas, and you are not hauling interstate freight, then you do not need a logbook. Hope that helps, thanks for stopping by.
I am currently starting up a car hauling business. My authority is in the 21 day protest period. I have gotten my apportioned plate(s). My question is, I need to drive 800mi to pick up my newly built trailer. Do I need to log and stop at scales on the way there? Also, on the way back what do I need to do? The trailer is not going to have anything on it. Do I just put the USDOT decal on since authority is not active yet?. I have a 2 ton truck. Truck gvw is 19,500. Thanks
got nailed for being under 21 and no log book. driving a chevy 3500 flatbed into WI from mn. I was just going to pick up a bin, it wasn’t a commercial trip, no one was making any money off of it. I told the officer that I wasn’t getting paid for that trip was just doing a favor. any help here? honestly i think the rules are bs because im 19 and own my own business have a f450 dump but cant even drive my own truck in other states.
Shane: you need to fill out a logbook, and comply with all of the other safety regulations when going to get the trailer. You can just put the USDOT decal on… since you are not transporting for-hire (the trailer is yours), you don’t need the authority to make the trip. But you need to comply with the safety regulations.
Mitch: No argument here. I can draft you into the military, I can make you fly halfway around the world and get you killed for the rest of the taxpayers, but you can’t drink, and you can’t drive your dumptruck across statelines until you’re 21. Maybe you should check out your local Tea Party. I’d say vote Republican, but generally they’re just as bad as the Democrats.
Now to your question: the rules only apply if you are in commerce. It’s probably a 50/50 chance you’ll win. For example, if you were using your flatbed to transport 4 wheelers to ride for the weekend, boom, you’d win. Using the flatbed to transport a bin, which might be related to your business… maybe not so much. Depends how much the ticket was, if it was a lot, you might consider getting a lawyer, take a chance fighting it.
I’m driving a 3/4 ton truck with a GVWR of 7800 lbs. I am a salesman that makes frequent stops during the day. Do I need to fill out a logbook? I do pull a trailer with a GVWR of 12,000 occassionally. We had a rough go with a DOT audit. I just wanted to make sure I am covering ourselves.
I would like to know where to find it in the DOT book too…thx.
question…
I will have a friend with CDL driving my box truck, 30 000 GVW flat towing a car behind and inside the box I will have 2 cars. we are starting a cross country trip, from MA to CA, 5 or 6 days on the road. DO we need to use logbook ? I am not doing this as business, because the cars we bought here back east are for ourselves. (we live in CA, visiting family back here, in MA) tks a bunch.
Do I need to fill out a log if I did not drive outside the 100 miles radius, clock in and out at work, but work over 12 hour.
Jerrid: Sorry for not answering sooner, I’ve been busy. Hours of service is in Part 395 of the safety regulations. If your truck is pulling the trailer, you need to keep track of the time you start, the time you finish, and the total number of hours worked that day. It does not have to be a logbook, unless you are going more than 150 miles from your office.
Jerrid: Also… if you have had a bad go of it in an audit, may I offer my services? Give me a call, I can probably help with the fine, and/or safety rating.
Rui Angelo: If you are not in commerce, you do not need a logbook, a DOT number, a medical certicate…. you don’t need anything. Just as if you had rented a U-Haul truck and were moving your furniture.
Tony: Maybe. How big is your truck? If it’s not a CDL truck, you don’t need the log, even though you worked over 12 hours. If it is a CDL truck, you do need the log.
Our company’s main office is in TX. I run the shop in LA. All my employees are on 24hr call. Our trucks are 3/4 w/9,600 GVW & 1 ton duellys w/11,001 GVW, licensed & insured in TX. We sometimes pull trailers up to 22ft, with 14,600lb GVW. When do we have to log?
Judy: if you have a vehicle with a GVWR of 10,001 lbs. or more, and you’re going more than 150 miles from the office, you have to log. So, if you drive one of your duallys to Austin, you need to log. If you couple one of your 3/4 ton trucks to a trailer, and drive to Austin, you need to log. Hope that helps, thanks for stopping by.
Hi, I drive for a small company and there is some debate here about when a new book needs to be started. We don’t drive out of state or over 150 moles often so my boss says that we can keep using the same log books month after month. I say that a new one must be started every month regardless of the amount of empty pages left from last months book. CAn you please explain the rule for when a new book should be started? Thanks
Loretta: you can keep using the same book. I assume you are keeping your time on a time sheet, card or clock when you are within 150 miles, and logging when you go beyond 150 miles? Anyway, if you don’t use all of the 30 pages a logbook per month, you don’t need to buy another one, you can keep using the one you have.
I do have a cdl and abide to all of the rules and regulations,but have just one question. When I pull our tool trailer to one of our company facilities in another state,I take the duelly 350 home on weekends. I am off duty and off the clock, do I still fill out the logbook driving on duty.
I do not have a CDL license. I’m wondering what rules apply in the following situation. I’m needing to drive a non CDL box truck (under 26,001 gvw) from Oklahoma where we live to meet my husband in Missouri. Can I legally drive the truck without a CDL out of state, do I have to keep a log book, can I get a ticket or be put out of service, etc. Thanks for any help on this!
Gena:
Yes you can drive a box truck under 26,000 lbs. without a CDL. You need a log book (I’m assuming this is going to be a trip of more than 150 miles, and that it is for business purposes). You should have a medical card, an annual inspection on the vehicle, and that’s off the top of my head, you might need some other stuff too. Hope that helps.
Hello, I drive a non cdl box truck cross state lines at night, is a logbook really required? I’ve never been ask for my logbook by any state trooper
in ”MA”
Eric, We just puurchased a 18ft box truck with a GVW of 12,000 I have no idea what exactly we need for our driver to comply with Ohio laws. Odot # log book, medical card, weigh stations.we have a few guys that drive around town, but once or twice a month we go to Virginia, N.C. You know alot about the correct ways of doing things from what I have been reading. please help! thank you
Dan: If you are hauling your own stuff, I believe your vehicle and its driver(s) are unregulated as long as they stay in Ohio… at least as far as the safety regulations go. If you go to Virginia, you are subject to all of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations, except CDL and drug testing.
If you want to know what that is, may I recommend purchasing my DVD product? 76 minutes of me talking, a copy of the rules, a copy of the forms to set up your driver file, a transcript of what I said on the DVD, and unlimited access to me on the phone if you don’t understand what was on the DVD. For the low price of $275. You can’t miss, and Arnold Safety fully supports the Ohio State Buckeyes (1990 alumnus) and the Cleveland Browns.
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Ryan: It doesn’t matter if you cross state lines, or not, if you stay within 150 miles of your office in your non-CDL truck, you don’t need a log.